Truth-Seekers? Are You There?

Okay, so I have a legitimate question. And the comment section is open to everyone, even if you think it is a stupid question in the first place, and even if you are an agnostic or atheist. I don’t expect everyone to agree with each other, but I do want to engage in respectful, intelligent conversation.

So here it is: have you ever gone through a serious phase of doubt in your life? And when I say doubt, I’m talking about your core beliefs. The ones that make you who you are. The reasons that you behave the way you do. I’m referring to the lens through which you view all other beliefs and ideologies.

I sincerely want to hear what you all have to say, even if you don’t call yourself a Christian. However, it is my opinion that this is something that sincere Christians do not talk about often enough. To me, it almost feels like the church is operating under an Emperor’s-New-Clothes mentality. We’re afraid that if we admit to having doubt, it will de-legitimize everything we claim to believe about God. Has anyone else felt what I’m feeling here?

So, if you did have doubts, or if you still do, where did they come from? Did you read something in the Bible that caused you to second-guess? Did you have a conversation that challenged your long-held beliefs? Maybe someone asked a question, and you just couldn’t fathom having an answer that fit in with everything you’ve ever believed.

I’d like to get a little bit of self-analyzing here, because I think it’s important that we ask the hard questions in an effort to become fully aware of why we believe what we do. I don’t think it’s good for people to float through life believing everything they’ve ever been told, even if it was a highly respected or valued individual that taught them.

Be a believer or a non-believer, as you wish. But be an intelligent one. Know why you are clinging to your religion (or anti-religion, as the case may be).

Okay, so a couple of follow up questions for those who have doubted: did you search for answers, or allow your beliefs to fall by the wayside? Did your religion suddenly become the most important thing you could possibly dig into and research, or did you just shrug your shoulders and leave it in the dust? Why do you think you reacted that way?

Did you come full-circle? Are you believing what you believed before, or did something change with the new information? What changed, and why?

If you doubted, and did your research, and are now a believer again, do you feel that your faith is stronger than ever? Do you feel that you needed to experience a time of doubting and searching to become the person you are today?

If you have never doubted, not even for a moment, why not? Are you clinging so closely to what you grew up believing that there’s no room for questions? Are you afraid to ask the hard questions? Afraid that you won’t like the answers, or afraid that you may be misled by someone who believes differently than you?

Truth is worth seeking. Even if you have to break down 50 years of traditional beliefs, even if it divides you from your friends and family, Truth is worth finding. Seek with a whole heart, and never be afraid of the Truth. Truth is freedom.

If the Bible is true, and I have found that it is, then your seeking will not go unrewarded. You will find the answers you are looking for:

“Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.” Matthew 5:6

“And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:32

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19 responses to “Truth-Seekers? Are You There?

  1. Again, answering by order:
    have you ever gone through a serious phase of doubt in your life?
    -I do know what you mean and yes, I have. I believe the most devoted of believers have.

    Has anyone else felt what I’m feeling here?
    -Every single day.

    So, if you did have doubts, or if you still do, where did they come from?
    -A combination of factors: Me being a skeptic by learning if not by nature, my need to see with my own eyes (Doubting Thomas?), the fact that I simply straight forward do not feel God’s presence, watch, or concern, and it is beyond the reach of my five senses. Even if I did admit the existence of the Christian God, I am not capable of loving something or someone I cannot grasp. And there are more reasons…

    did you search for answers, or allow your beliefs to fall by the wayside? Did your religion suddenly become the most important thing you could possibly dig into and research, or did you just shrug your shoulders and leave it in the dust? Why do you think you reacted that way?

    -I never leave things like faith alone. I am still dealing with everything you just described. I had looked for the truth in books, people, life, everything I could possibly find. The bottom line is although Christians believe God wrote the bible- no questions asked- I believe humans wrote the bible. That does not mean the truth is not in there. It only means I do not trust it.
    I have come to the conclusion that in order for me to believe in the Christian God I have to see solid proof. evidence is not proof. Having said that, I do believe in the existence of God. But I do not think it is (anymore) the same God described in the three main religions. I do pray, I do speak, I do ask- but I believe organized religion is the way in which people choose to unite. That is okay, but the boundaries it sets on my very thinking, is not something I can live with. And I understand the human need to believe in a higher force looking after them, so from an anthropological point of view I must step even out of my own shoes and question my own belief in a higher force and what purpose it serves for me, mentally, regardless of the authenticity of it.

    Did you come full-circle? Are you believing what you believed before, or did something change with the new information? What changed, and why?

    – My understanding of God changes almost daily. When something bad happens to me and I pray and receive neither comfort nor answers, neither at the same moment nor later on, I ask myself Whether or not I am speaking to myself, and “I know the plans I have for you… Plans to give you hope, and a future” looks as far away as it gets. I know I should believe something good must come of it but I do not and cannot believe that. I am secretly hoping God himself will change my mind as I am incapable of doing it myself.

    If you doubted, and did your research, and are now a believer again, do you feel that your faith is stronger than ever? Do you feel that you needed to experience a time of doubting and searching to become the person you are today?

    -I never returned to being a believer, at least not so far, for everything I just described.

    I hope this helps.

    • Wow, thank you for the time you spent in answering so thoughtfully and completely! This is exactly the conversation I’m looking for.

      “the fact that I simply straight forward do not feel God’s presence, watch, or concern, and it is beyond the reach of my five senses” I know others who feel this way. I see God everywhere I look, and others do not. I think this is a very legitimate reason to doubt. Why do some of us never sense Him? It’s not because they aren’t looking. I believe that the answers are coming – it just takes longer sometimes – I’ll call it His perfect timing, lol. I see Him when I look at how organized languages used to be, even though they have broken down over the centuries. I see Him when I see how organized life is on this planet – even though, it too, is breaking down (thermodynamics). I see Him in the Law that gave us perfect health regulations. I see Him in the fulfilled Messianic prophecies. I am not de-legitimizing the feelings that you have, merely suggesting some new places to look!

      “I never leave things like faith alone.” I agree. The question of God and who He is is an intriguing one, and fun to study too! I hope that someday, you will find the answers you are looking for. I believe that you will – “Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.” Matthew 7:7-8

      Do you ever think that the human need to believe in a higher power is there because God put it there? That He has given us a desire to seek Him because He wants to be found? Food for though.

      There’s a bit more to the passage you quoted. It has to do with God’s people seeking His face and turning back to Him with a whole heart. That’s when the plans that He has for us will ripen to fruition: “For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

      12 Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.

      13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

      14 And I will be found of you, saith the Lord: and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations, and from all the places whither I have driven you, saith the Lord; and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive.”

      I have really been enjoying our conversations! I am so glad that you are honest and unafraid to speak of potentially controversial things. I was amazed by your bravery the other day when you talked about submission and slavery on your blog. It’s refreshing to see someone who shares what’s really in her heart instead of catering to popular opinion!

      • Thank you so very much! And I am not ashamed to say you are the type of people I was hoping to communicate to. It is, after all, called Shir’s Blog of Faith, and it is because of all these questions that I started it. I hope we can keep sharing and coming up with new ideas of growth.

  2. When I was twelve–I remember it clearly–I sat in church wondering. I knew I was looking. I felt I knew what I was looking for.
    I knew there was truth somewhere in the Bible because I knew there was this basically unexplainable thing that the original 12 disciples had found and were completely willing to die for. And, sorry, but I also knew it wasn’t religion. Nope. There are tons of religions and religions are what make people willing to KILL, not willing to die.
    I truly sat in church and realized what I was getting was what people were willing to kill for. I had not found anything I was willing to die for. I was pretty sure those who went before in the Believing tradition had found whatever that was. All the martyrs had had something, found something, and all the Crusaders had not.
    I wondered what it was and wanted to find it, if possible.
    I’m a sort of scary personality in that I usually just calmly watch and listen. And when I know that I know something, I teach. But if I get pushed, I might flare up. A little bit. Maybe. Heh heh.
    So I just sat in church and waited and listened and watched. For all the love I had for the history/tradition, for all the artistic beauty inherent in the average formal church setting, and for all the comfort of repetition, I could not find anything that would be hard to walk away from. At all. But I felt pretty sure whatever it was that I could not find, it was still there to be found, but I could not find it.
    Eventually I left for college and ditched it all for a disobedient lifestyle. I married an atheist/agnostic who was a brilliant thinker. (Oh, and he was in the same denomination, so my parents were pretty pleased. Snowed, more like it.)
    The VietNam draft and the cost of college forced us to choose the military life for a short while. Then back to college and on to married parenthood and a real job. During this time came the movie “Jesus Christ, Superstar”. We did not view it, but did purchase the soundtrack, for which, for some reason, the product insert included a Bible reference, and we opened the Bible in our home for the first time, ever. And my mostly unchurched husband had questions which I could answer, from the storehouse of Bible memory work I’d spent my childhood learning.
    Ironic, no?
    Eventually I began feeling guilty about not attending church and since my husband was okay with it, I went a couple of times. You know how that can make you a member, sometimes? First thing I knew, I was teaching VBS. It was 1976, the bicentennial year. I remember that, because the VBS curriculum was all “God and Country” and having just exited the VietNam/college culture, I was really having trouble teaching little children something I did not believe. Really.
    I remembered things from the childhood Bible memo work, still, and I remembered that if we ask for spiritual gifts, God always says “yes”. (Or so I was taught.)
    Therefore, one night, still angry at the curriculum, and also angry at God, I prayed. “God, if you’re really up there, you’ve got to do one of two things: You either have to change my brain or else you have to get me out of teaching VBS, because I REALLY cannot teach things to little children as truth if I don’t believe them myself.”
    Two choices. I actually had issued an ultimatum to God that He had two choices, if He wanted me to believe He exists.
    Guess which one He chose.
    I was so sure He could not change my brain (because He probably wasn’t really “up there”), and still so mad that He’d let me get into the predicament (because, although He does not exist, everything is His fault, right?), that I was fuming the next morning about what I was going to have to teach to little children.
    My husband noticed my agitation and asked what was wrong. I began showing him all the propaganda in the teacher’s book that had made me so angry.
    And I could not find it. I could find the book and no pages were missing. But I could not find the “opinions” that had so angered me. I could not find the untruths. I could not find a. single. thing. in that curriculum that was not reasonable, not conceivable, not plausible. I was dumbfounded. I had locked horns with God and lost.
    Won, actually. Because overnight, He had instilled faith in my heart. Because I told Him He had to, then rolled over and went to sleep. And He did it.
    And I want to tell you what I got was NOT religion. NOT. NOT. NOT.
    What I got was life. It’s a whole different thing, entirely.
    Even the Bible describes religion: looking after widows and orphans, and keeping yourself unspotted by the world.
    That is admirable, yes, but also SO MUCH NOT what I got. I got life in Christ. I finally found what it was that the martyrs had. I’d actually seen God at work and no longer knew He was probably real. I KNEW HIM. His fingerprints were and always are on me.
    Just not the same, at all.
    Yes, I’ve looked back a bit. Trouble is, He’s got my back. He is always very near. Well, actually, He is in me. In me. The Living Water is not a parable. Nope. It is reality.
    It is the only reality.
    I used to say, and I think it is relevant, here, that there are 3 Kingdoms:
    The Plant Kingdom, which we know for sure we are not a part of.
    The Animal Kingdom, which many think they are part of because they think that is the only alternative, or maybe, because as unbelievers, that is where they are?
    And.
    The Kingdom of God, a spiritual kingdom that invisibly coexists all around and among and within us, who belong to Him. A kingdom into which a person must be born. Again.
    And that is where I am and where I have been for over fifty years.
    I have been young and now am old, and I’ve never seen anything I can regret about His lifting me from my slow death into this fractalesque explosion of true life.
    Hope you didn’t think our answers would be short… 🙂

    • Oooh, and I think I got the date wrong. Hmm. Sorry. Never been any good at math. It was probably more like ’86 and forty years ago? Really sorry about that.

      • Wow, Kathy! I really want to read this a couple of times and let it sink into my mind. There are things in here I absolutely love – such as the difference between having something to kill for and having something to die for. I intend to respond more fully after a while (getting ready to teach), but I just wanted to shoot you a quick response. Also, would you consider guest-posting this to my blog? I think more people need to see it.

      • Arrgh. Okay. I suffer from a public education!!!! It WAS ’76, but that was thirty years ago. smh

      • Again – I just love this: “I knew there was truth somewhere in the Bible because I knew there was this basically unexplainable thing that the original 12 disciples had found and were completely willing to die for. And, sorry, but I also knew it wasn’t religion. Nope. There are tons of religions and religions are what make people willing to KILL, not willing to die.”

        I am reminded of the apostle Paul. Now there was a man who never lacked religion in his life. However, just as you said, SOMETHING changed him from being a man who went around killing in the name of religion to dying for what he believed in. And that something was Christ – the Messiah! Jesus changed everything for Paul (even his name, lol).

        When Paul was able to scrutinize his religion in the light of Jesus Christ, the scales literally fell from his eyes, and he understood the Old Testament in the way it was meant to be understood. Without Christ, nothing makes sense. With Him, everything does.

        And I agree, the churches are guilty of not presenting Christ for who He really is. We get so caught up in man-made doctrines, church culture, and all of the other fluff, that we fail to focus on God Almighty and what He really wants. When we become obedient, His blessings are so obviously present in our lives, that we couldn’t possibly mistake Him for coincidence or anything else.

        Another thing about the disciples and their willingness to die. These were historical figures. We know about their life and times from many sources. Something happened to these men that changed them. They went from being scattered and cowardly to unified and bold. The fact that so many of the disciples died for their faith is better to me than any eye-witness account. It is absolute proof that they had witnessed the resurrected Messiah. People say a lot of things, but they will only die for something that they absolutely believe in.

        Lovely story, Kathy. Thank you so much for sharing! Wondering about your husband…if it’s not too personal a question, what does he believe nowadays?

  3. And sure, I’ll guest post, if you will please check my math! 😀 It would be an honor. Love ya’.

    • Awesome!! I’ll fix it for you. Love you too – one of these days we’ll actually meet each other, lol.

      • My husband came to the Lord via John 8. He knew he was wrong, and asked me what was wrong, so I read to him. And God did the rest. Radically saved, too. He’s a preacher now, in his retirement from forestry. A good one. Took a little church with only 12 regular members and six years later, we are not even surprised when 50 show up. So, good things happening. 🙂

  4. I too will answer in order. “have you ever gone through a serious phase of doubt in your life? And when I say doubt, I’m talking about your core beliefs. The ones that make you who you are. The reasons that you behave the way you do. I’m referring to the lens through which you view all other beliefs and ideologies.”
    –Absolutely I have doubted. I remember even as a child practicing logistics in my head and thinking things like: “how is that even possible,” “why do we do this,” “what does that even mean,” “does this really work,” ect. I even asked my parents about some things and got pretty generic answers: the same answers I seem to get most of the time, even talking to believers today. Most* people (I say most from personal conclusions and not actual scientific data) believe what they grew up believing. That is why, I’m my opinion, there are soooooo many different religions and branches of the same religion today. And due to relatively recent technology in worldwide communication and travel, we are much more aware of other religions around us and in other parts of the world. If not for such things being globally accessible, most of us would carry on believing what our parents taught us, pass it down from generation to generation, and have no clue that others have such greatly differing opinions. However, that being said, because most of us trust our parents (or other role model, whoever that might be) and what they believe, we never question. I became afraid to ask questions as I grew, being led to believe that doubting was a sin against god. This idea, as I’ve come to find out, is hog wash. But as very small children (or an impressionable teenager, or distraught adult) looking for answers from someone we believe to have all the answers, we trust willingly and without question. And these ideas that are planted into our brains, we come to believe as truth. Just as you trust your doctor when you tell him your symptoms and he tells you that you’re suffering from heartburn. From then on, when you feel the burning sensation in your stomach and chest, you pop a Tums and automatically assume its heartburn.
    But then one day, you die. And come to find out, this pain was not heartburn, but stomach cancer. One can be taught that certain occurrences, feelings, thoughts, actions, ect, are caused by a deity and they grow on those beliefs, accepting them as fact, even if they are not. For instance, it is your belief that your god created everything, lives in everything, influences everything, and is present everywhere you look. However, the same holds true for other people who place their faith in different gods. There are simply too many to name. If you truly believe in something and look for it in every endeavor, you are going to find it wether or not it is actually there. It all has to do with passion. There have been countless incidences; suicides, murders, mass murders, torture, horrendous acts that have been carried out in the name of a god. Even your god, I’m sorry to say.
    The point? Once the lense is placed, it is very difficult to see past it and most people do not have the desire, will, or backbone to do so.

    “So, if you did have doubts, or if you still do, where did they come from?”
    When my beliefs were first questioned (I mean REALLY questioned) it was from a man who was raised in the christian faith, started studying science as an adult, and slowly converted to atheism as he reached the conclusion that he could not find god anywhere he looked. I myself have not come to any definite conclusions, as I am still searching diligently. However I do wonder on a daily basis, why would a god, as claimed by the bible to be the creator of the universe and everything in it, good, loving, just, and true who apparently “wants” to be found, loved, worshiped, and exalted, be SO damn difficult to find? If he is in everything, why can’t I SEE him in anything? Its not because I’m not looking. But my belief “system” that I grew up with, I have found to be lacking. Inadequate for the real world. I was not taught to ask questions. I was actually taught NOT to. However, I wasn’t given ANY hard evidence to support this belief. I remember asking my father (who is one of the most intelligent people I have ever met, mind you) why there were people who believed differently than us. He said “well, there are many different religions in this world and each one of them think that they’re right.” And as I stared at him blankly, reaching for an answer, he laughed a little (realizing before he said it, how stupid it would sound) and said “but we’re right.” And when I asked him why, he relplied “because we have the bible.” And even as a child, I walked away bewildered but didn’t dare question further because my parents taught me that the bible is TRUTH. Period. And not to question it. However, in my personal studies, I have found TONS of issues with the bible. Misprints, misinterpretations, things that have been left out, things that have been added (allegedly), unfulfilled prophecies, “fulfilled” prophecies that may not have been prophecies at all, contradictions, ect ect ect. And I have come to the conclusion that NONE of it is trustworthy in the sense that I once thought. Sure, there may be certain accurate information sprinkled throughout the pages, “actual history” if you will, but how to decide what to trust and what not to trust????? This is where I stumble. Who decided which books to include, which ones to exclude, how to translate? All of this was put into the hands of MAN. And they obviously didn’t do it perfectly. But that’s to be expected right? Man is human, and to err is human.
    In order to have the ability to even UNDERSTAND the bible in its entirety, I would have learn the original Hebrew language and translate it for my own self. But even then, the books were also written by MAN and chosen by man to be a part of this book that is supposed to have all the answers (the important ones anyway). Its supposed to contain provable truth. Then why hasn’t it been proven? One cannot use the scientific method to prove the bible is true. The method that is used to separate fact from fiction, myth from law, in our crazy f’d up world. Some people NEED raw physical, testable, provable truth. And I see nothing wrong with that. And I am nowhere near finished studying. I study in my free time constantly. Myself AND the man that challenged me in the first place (as he is now my husband and the father of my children). But even him being an atheist, doesn’t stop him from searching for the truth. The questions that we all want to know the answers to. Why are we here? How did we get here? And will we continue on after death?

    If you have never doubted, not even for a moment, why not?
    I think this is impossible. In my opinion (maybe I’m wrong) anyone who claims to have NEVER doubted, is lying through their teeth. They might be afraid to admit it, but nonetheless, it is simply impossible.

    • A book’s worth of discussion will not bother me, lol! Again, I am just thankful for open and honest debate. More than anyone else I know, sis, you have challenged me to be honest with myself about these things. That’s one reason I’m asking the question: it is an effort to get everyone thinking honestly.

      ” If not for such things being globally accessible, most of us would carry on believing what our parents taught us, pass it down from generation to generation, and have no clue that others have such greatly differing opinions.”
      This is interesting, and worth taking seriously. It’s actually one of the problems I have with modern Christianity. They all act like Paul came along and preached new doctrines. It’s almost like they think that the people of the era were just waiting for something better to come along. However, that’s not at all what happened. He preached to them from the Word, showing them how the prophesied things had come true, and what it meant for humanity. The people in Berea were commended for checking to see if what Paul was actually true. It’s the opposite of what we see today. Christians in general act offended when you ask for proof. Heck, they get offended if another Christian even tries to OFFER proof. They start talking about faith and other things they don’t understand. (I wrote about faith today, and it’ll pop up on my blog in a couple of days.) They give you generic answers that don’t satisfy, and you wonder how they are satisfied with their own answers. I have said this before and will say again – it’s no wonder that Jews, Muslims, and atheists think we (Christians) are crazy.
      The biggest proof, for me, is the body of Messianic prophecy. However, Jewish people don’t understand it because they are still waiting for the Messiah – even though it’s prophesied that they would reject Him. They have unknowingly and unwittingly fulfilled this prophecy. That is another truth that points directly to Jesus.
      And Christians can’t understand it bc they have so belittled the OT as to not study it and see how every single word and story points to the Messiah. So you have to dig for yourself. And I know that’s hard, but it’s worth it. The Bible never asks us to believe based on nothing – “prove all things;” 1 Thessalonians 5:21. The books of Luke and Acts are written like research papers to “prove” that Jesus was the Messiah. The whole book of Hebrews explains how it is even possible that Jesus is the Messiah.

      “I became afraid to ask questions as I grew, being led to believe that doubting was a sin against god. This idea, as I’ve come to find out, is hog wash.” Doubt is legitimate. Searching for truth is admirable, even encouraged by Jesus (ask, seek, knock). Christians who can offer no proofs whatsoever are lazy and ignorant (I’m not being hateful – I mean that in the most literal sense of the word). And disobedient. The Bible tells us to “be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:” I Peter 3:15. (Personally, I’m still working on the ‘meekness’ part, lol.)

      “For instance, it is your belief that your god created everything, lives in everything, influences everything, and is present everywhere you look. However, the same holds true for other people who place their faith in different gods.” All too true. That’s why I keep asking, keep seeking, keep knocking. That’s why I stake my faith in the fulfilled prophecies and the foreknowledge of God (such as the life-saving health laws before the existence of germ theory).

      “If he is in everything, why can’t I SEE him in anything? Its not because I’m not looking.” Ah, and I believe you will find Him. Some things take time. If you do find Him, do you think you will consider this era of disbelief to be a great asset to you?

      “because we have the bible.” If you ever strip away everything else and study Torah in light of Christ – all of the pieces will fall into place, and you will know beyond the shadow of a doubt that these thing could not have been contrived by man. Especially not by several men writing many different books spanning thousands of years. It fits together too perfectly to be coincidence, but again, I insist that it can only be understood as it was meant to be understood. Our Western eyes misinterpret the Eastern Hebrew intent all of the time. The church has destroyed the Jewishness of the New Testament that so perfectly points to the Messiah. It is a travesty. The Jews are no help because they can’t see Christ.

      “but how to decide what to trust and what not to trust????? This is where I stumble. Who decided which books to include, which ones to exclude, how to translate? All of this was put into the hands of MAN. And they obviously didn’t do it perfectly.” Agree. That’s why I start with the foreshadowing and the prophecies and the health laws. The indisputable things. I’m learning the Hebrew language myself to see if I can sort out some of the rest of it. Point blank – I am tired of being told what to believe. Especially when I have the resources and intelligence to learn the Hebrew language and look things up for myself. There’s simply no excuse not to learn.

      If there’s one thing that the scientific method has taught us, it’s this: cause and effect. If there is an effect, there is necessarily a cause. That’s why the scientific method works. Look around you. Look at the perfectly designed cell wall. Look at the perfectly designed solar system. Look at the perfectly designed properties of water. Study any branch of science, and you will see organization, predictable outcomes – an impossibility in a world governed by thermodynamics. We are walking, breathing “effects” that demand a cause, and we are surrounded by everyday miracles.

      “I think this is impossible. In my opinion (maybe I’m wrong) anyone who claims to have NEVER doubted, is lying through their teeth. They might be afraid to admit it, but nonetheless, it is simply impossible.”
      I would be inclined to agree with you – except, I fear there are a few people who never question anything at all. If they had been born Muslim, Muslim they would be. Christian, Christian, Jewish, Jewish. Pick a religion – any religion, and you will see blind followers. Makes no difference bc it never occurs to some people that they could actually be wrong about anything. And it must also never occur to them that anyone teaching them the things they now believe could have been wrong either.

      And that’s another reason why this discussion is a good one. The truth is worth the effort.

      Thank you, Kimmy! I really appreciate you taking the time to type all of this up. I know sometimes it can be a burden to feel like you have to say everything you want to say AND state yourself clearly, lol.

  5. PS sorry for the book

  6. Wow, this comment section has taken me two days and I still am not through it.

    I was the super believer back in high school into college (a little bit of questioning there) but then I went in the military and was like a military Jesus freak. I was effective and loving. Then I crashed after getting out. Long story shortened – I lost my faith almost completely, almost got divorced, and couldn’t find help. Over a few years I read, devoured, and talked to folks.

    Now: I am a believer in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus from a historical and theological standpoint but I am not a Bible believing fundamentalist. I am like a screwed up Armenianist who thinks that Calvinist get it right but secretly I desire to be a Messianic Jewish follower who struggles greatly with believing that any of this is real.

    I am now a born-again conspiracy theorist that claims Christianity and tries to live it but who knows that I fall WAY short, like by short I mean I never hit the mark. Ha!

    I am constantly reading and asking questions. Life-long learner.

    Thanks for asking,
    Keith

    • Thank you for your comment! I hope you are enjoying what the others have to say. I really think it’s important that we have a non-judgmental place where we can all come and talk through some of the things that bother us.

      I agree with a lot of what Calvin had to say, and I know that some people are surprised by that, lol. I don’t even know what Armenianism is.

      I’m curious as to any specific things that you are having trouble believing, from a Messianic Jewish stand point. I’ve have been studying those things for a little while and have started to form quite a few opinions regarding them. Perhaps we could bounce a couple of ideas off of each other?

      For myself, when I study the OT in the light of Jesus Christ, everything makes sense. And when I study the NT in the light of the Torah, everything also makes sense. It’s difficult to put the pieces together though, largely bc the Torah is ignored by Christians, and Jesus is ignored by Jews. If we could get together, I believe everything would come into focus for us.

      I have written at length about studying from a Jewish perspective. I think all you’d have to do is go to my homepage, and choose “Torah” from the dropdown box labeled, “I Write About…”

      I would love to hear any of your feedback or ideas on those posts as well, even if you disagree! I love the challenge of having to dig for proof. Sometimes it’s there, and it strengthens my faith in what I believe. Sometimes it’s not, and I have to reevaluate a few things. Either way, I’m looking forward to hearing from you!

  7. Pingback: Why I Ditched Religion – by Katharine Trauger | Full Circle Homeschooling

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